<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Inclusion</title>
	<atom:link href="http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/2009/05/19/inclusion/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/2009/05/19/inclusion/</link>
	<description>Hope for today</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:01:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Ted Seeber</title>
		<link>http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/2009/05/19/inclusion/#comment-251</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Seeber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 20:32:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/?p=94#comment-251</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d agree with that- you should check out the works of Blessed Father McGivney, Blessed Dorthy Day, and GK Chesterton for another way of looking at things.  Distributionism is the name of the economic system, and can be (some would say is best) practiced on a bottom up scale from the standpoint of small, self-sufficient communities.

Blessed Father McGivney&#039;s version is a group that I encourage all Practical Catholic Gentlemen (his words) to join:  http://www.kofc.org , the Knights of Columbus, which started out (and still has some elements of) as a mutual aid society, and has turned into an insurance company and a service organization.

Blessed Dorthy Day&#039;s version was the Catholic Workers of America union, which runs Birthright Houses for unwed mothers and Dorthy Day houses for the homeless nationwide.

GK Chesterton&#039;s version was largely imaginary, in his works of fiction, but basically brought the right to own the means of production back to the individual worker, rather than the corporation.

All are within Pope Leo&#039;s Reum Novarum- his answer to Marxism.

I still struggle with some aspects of church teaching- as a distributionist, for instance, I&#039;m not at all sure that supporting the human right to migrate for work doesn&#039;t do more harm than good.  But I&#039;m willing to accept, and be humble, that greater men than I are wrestling and have wrestled with the topic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d agree with that- you should check out the works of Blessed Father McGivney, Blessed Dorthy Day, and GK Chesterton for another way of looking at things.  Distributionism is the name of the economic system, and can be (some would say is best) practiced on a bottom up scale from the standpoint of small, self-sufficient communities.</p>
<p>Blessed Father McGivney&#8217;s version is a group that I encourage all Practical Catholic Gentlemen (his words) to join:  <a href="http://www.kofc.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.kofc.org</a> , the Knights of Columbus, which started out (and still has some elements of) as a mutual aid society, and has turned into an insurance company and a service organization.</p>
<p>Blessed Dorthy Day&#8217;s version was the Catholic Workers of America union, which runs Birthright Houses for unwed mothers and Dorthy Day houses for the homeless nationwide.</p>
<p>GK Chesterton&#8217;s version was largely imaginary, in his works of fiction, but basically brought the right to own the means of production back to the individual worker, rather than the corporation.</p>
<p>All are within Pope Leo&#8217;s Reum Novarum- his answer to Marxism.</p>
<p>I still struggle with some aspects of church teaching- as a distributionist, for instance, I&#8217;m not at all sure that supporting the human right to migrate for work doesn&#8217;t do more harm than good.  But I&#8217;m willing to accept, and be humble, that greater men than I are wrestling and have wrestled with the topic.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jim Marks</title>
		<link>http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/2009/05/19/inclusion/#comment-250</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Marks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 20:18:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/?p=94#comment-250</guid>
		<description>I think I&#039;d say limited success rather than failure. The RCC learned a lot from Luther&#039;s objections - eventually. 

I&#039;d say the failure for the USofA has more to do with our fanatical devotion to the liberal, autonomous individual over and above the community. I think this leads to tyranny, ironically, both in the church and in the state, and in society in general. We each think we&#039;re more important than anyone else, and so do they. Whomever gets a little bit of power ends up using it to impose their individual ideas on everyone else. We&#039;ve forgotten to rally behind the collective (the congress, the parish, the municipal community) to keep individuals from being tyrants. We find comfort, ironically, in The Strong Man. 

Part of re-joining the RCC, for me, was being willing to accept that I didn&#039;t like 100% of the Church&#039;s positions on topics and that had to be OK. I had to learn to live in that tension and accept that the collective was more important than I am. 

To be clear, I&#039;m not advocating socialism over capitalism, just a touch of Confucianism over our Rational Enlightenment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I&#8217;d say limited success rather than failure. The RCC learned a lot from Luther&#8217;s objections &#8211; eventually. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d say the failure for the USofA has more to do with our fanatical devotion to the liberal, autonomous individual over and above the community. I think this leads to tyranny, ironically, both in the church and in the state, and in society in general. We each think we&#8217;re more important than anyone else, and so do they. Whomever gets a little bit of power ends up using it to impose their individual ideas on everyone else. We&#8217;ve forgotten to rally behind the collective (the congress, the parish, the municipal community) to keep individuals from being tyrants. We find comfort, ironically, in The Strong Man. </p>
<p>Part of re-joining the RCC, for me, was being willing to accept that I didn&#8217;t like 100% of the Church&#8217;s positions on topics and that had to be OK. I had to learn to live in that tension and accept that the collective was more important than I am. </p>
<p>To be clear, I&#8217;m not advocating socialism over capitalism, just a touch of Confucianism over our Rational Enlightenment.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ted Seeber</title>
		<link>http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/2009/05/19/inclusion/#comment-249</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Seeber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 20:03:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/?p=94#comment-249</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s ok, I messed up on my first reply and called you Jonathan anyway.  Nice to know I have a countryman in this movement.  I do have to wonder, sometimes, if the American experiment of ending monarchial government isn&#039;t intertwined in all this.

The Reformation had people running away from tyrannical, corrupt Bishops and Priests.  The American Revolution was running away from tyrannical, corrupt Kings and Queens.  But both eventually failed, and just ended up creating new tyrannies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s ok, I messed up on my first reply and called you Jonathan anyway.  Nice to know I have a countryman in this movement.  I do have to wonder, sometimes, if the American experiment of ending monarchial government isn&#8217;t intertwined in all this.</p>
<p>The Reformation had people running away from tyrannical, corrupt Bishops and Priests.  The American Revolution was running away from tyrannical, corrupt Kings and Queens.  But both eventually failed, and just ended up creating new tyrannies.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jim Marks</title>
		<link>http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/2009/05/19/inclusion/#comment-248</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Marks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 20:01:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/?p=94#comment-248</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m actually replying to your reply, Ted, but it won&#039;t let me thread that deep up there, so I&#039;m putting it down there. 

And yes, I agree, returning to the RCC is a big part of the solution, one that most Protestants refuse to even consider. It is what I did 12 years ago and every time I re-evaluate the decision I feel better about it. 

I guess I&#039;m just not comfortable calling our differences &quot;sin&quot;, which is why I hesitate to talk about forgiveness and would rather focus on unity through Love.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m actually replying to your reply, Ted, but it won&#8217;t let me thread that deep up there, so I&#8217;m putting it down there. </p>
<p>And yes, I agree, returning to the RCC is a big part of the solution, one that most Protestants refuse to even consider. It is what I did 12 years ago and every time I re-evaluate the decision I feel better about it. </p>
<p>I guess I&#8217;m just not comfortable calling our differences &#8220;sin&#8221;, which is why I hesitate to talk about forgiveness and would rather focus on unity through Love.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ted Seeber</title>
		<link>http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/2009/05/19/inclusion/#comment-247</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Seeber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 19:46:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/?p=94#comment-247</guid>
		<description>If they&#039;re willing to fix it, the fix is as close as an RCIA class at their closest Roman Catholic Parish.

And the &quot;differences&quot; that matter, do require forgiveness.  Sin harms man as well as God; that&#039;s what the Sacrament of Reconciliation is all about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If they&#8217;re willing to fix it, the fix is as close as an RCIA class at their closest Roman Catholic Parish.</p>
<p>And the &#8220;differences&#8221; that matter, do require forgiveness.  Sin harms man as well as God; that&#8217;s what the Sacrament of Reconciliation is all about.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ted Seeber</title>
		<link>http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/2009/05/19/inclusion/#comment-246</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Seeber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 16:07:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/?p=94#comment-246</guid>
		<description>Theresa that&#039;s exactly what I meant.  Not all differences are good.  I would forgive a deadbeat dad, then try to show him what a real father does.   I&#039;ve seen many things where the emergence does in fact call good evil, and evil good, and fails to call people to actually live better lives.

Jonathan- it&#039;s not about everybody being the same, it never was.  The Catholic Church is a meta culture, not a cult.  It&#039;s about asking people to be better than they have been- and then giving them the chance to do it.  The way to fix the 500 years of bigotry is simple- rejoin the Church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Theresa that&#8217;s exactly what I meant.  Not all differences are good.  I would forgive a deadbeat dad, then try to show him what a real father does.   I&#8217;ve seen many things where the emergence does in fact call good evil, and evil good, and fails to call people to actually live better lives.</p>
<p>Jonathan- it&#8217;s not about everybody being the same, it never was.  The Catholic Church is a meta culture, not a cult.  It&#8217;s about asking people to be better than they have been- and then giving them the chance to do it.  The way to fix the 500 years of bigotry is simple- rejoin the Church.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jim Marks</title>
		<link>http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/2009/05/19/inclusion/#comment-245</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Marks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 03:56:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/?p=94#comment-245</guid>
		<description>Protestantism, by definition, is bigoted against 1500 years of faith experience. What&#039;s the big deal if emergence decides the 500 years built on top of that bigotry wasn&#039;t such a good idea after all? I don&#039;t call that more bigotry, I call that finally getting around to realizing you threw the baby out with the bathwater and being willing to fix it. 

Love is learning that differences don&#039;t require forgiveness. Because we are not called to be identical. We are called to love.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Protestantism, by definition, is bigoted against 1500 years of faith experience. What&#8217;s the big deal if emergence decides the 500 years built on top of that bigotry wasn&#8217;t such a good idea after all? I don&#8217;t call that more bigotry, I call that finally getting around to realizing you threw the baby out with the bathwater and being willing to fix it. </p>
<p>Love is learning that differences don&#8217;t require forgiveness. Because we are not called to be identical. We are called to love.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Theresa Seeber</title>
		<link>http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/2009/05/19/inclusion/#comment-244</link>
		<dc:creator>Theresa Seeber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 03:29:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/?p=94#comment-244</guid>
		<description>Angela, yes, love is the winner! :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Angela, yes, love is the winner! <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Theresa Seeber</title>
		<link>http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/2009/05/19/inclusion/#comment-243</link>
		<dc:creator>Theresa Seeber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 02:19:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/?p=94#comment-243</guid>
		<description>Ted, forgiving differences implies something is wrong with our differences. Should I forgive my friend for being black? I don&#039;t think so. Nor do I think we should ignore our differences. Rather we should celebrate them, for they represent different facets of the image of God we are all created in. Also, love is not in any way the same as calling good evil and vice versa. That is not love. I think we have a difference in the usage of some of our terms. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ted, forgiving differences implies something is wrong with our differences. Should I forgive my friend for being black? I don&#8217;t think so. Nor do I think we should ignore our differences. Rather we should celebrate them, for they represent different facets of the image of God we are all created in. Also, love is not in any way the same as calling good evil and vice versa. That is not love. I think we have a difference in the usage of some of our terms. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Angela Harms</title>
		<link>http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/2009/05/19/inclusion/#comment-242</link>
		<dc:creator>Angela Harms</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 02:11:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/?p=94#comment-242</guid>
		<description>Yay, Jonathan! And yay, Theresa! I am so happy when I see this love stuff winning. Which, of course, it must do. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yay, Jonathan! And yay, Theresa! I am so happy when I see this love stuff winning. Which, of course, it must do. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
