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	<title>Comments on: If you are gay, know this: Jesus loves you</title>
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	<link>http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/2009/04/28/if-you-are-gay-know-this-jesus-loves-you/</link>
	<description>Hope for today</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:01:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: The Moral &#8230; Left? &#171; Eyes of Hope Weblog</title>
		<link>http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/2009/04/28/if-you-are-gay-know-this-jesus-loves-you/#comment-270</link>
		<dc:creator>The Moral &#8230; Left? &#171; Eyes of Hope Weblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 04:36:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/?p=71#comment-270</guid>
		<description>[...] and other &#8216;deviant&#8217; behaviors.&#8221; (Disclaimer: for those who don&#8217;t know me, I don&#8217;t believe it is a sin to be gay, nor to pursue a gay relationship [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and other &#8216;deviant&#8217; behaviors.&#8221; (Disclaimer: for those who don&#8217;t know me, I don&#8217;t believe it is a sin to be gay, nor to pursue a gay relationship [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Theresa Seeber</title>
		<link>http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/2009/04/28/if-you-are-gay-know-this-jesus-loves-you/#comment-257</link>
		<dc:creator>Theresa Seeber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 18:27:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/?p=71#comment-257</guid>
		<description>Ted, you said: &quot;And if we can accept the sinners from that list in our churches, why the hell can’t we accept homosexuals?&quot; 

Amen. &#039;Nuff said. Even if we don&#039;t agree to the nature of the orientation, the people of Christ must share Him with everyone. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ted, you said: &#8220;And if we can accept the sinners from that list in our churches, why the hell can’t we accept homosexuals?&#8221; </p>
<p>Amen. &#8216;Nuff said. Even if we don&#8217;t agree to the nature of the orientation, the people of Christ must share Him with everyone.</p>
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		<title>By: Ted Seeber</title>
		<link>http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/2009/04/28/if-you-are-gay-know-this-jesus-loves-you/#comment-256</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Seeber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 18:10:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/?p=71#comment-256</guid>
		<description>Specifically- while I&#039;m on the utter other side of this issue than Mel and Theresa, I don&#039;t see why homosexuality is any more special of a sin than divorce, sex before marriage, extramarital affairs, artificial birth control, or abortion.

In fact, it&#039;s a lot less damaging than that list above- so why aren&#039;t fundamentalists concentrating on that list FIRST?!?!?!?!?

And if we can accept the sinners from that list in our churches, why the hell can&#039;t we accept homosexuals?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Specifically- while I&#8217;m on the utter other side of this issue than Mel and Theresa, I don&#8217;t see why homosexuality is any more special of a sin than divorce, sex before marriage, extramarital affairs, artificial birth control, or abortion.</p>
<p>In fact, it&#8217;s a lot less damaging than that list above- so why aren&#8217;t fundamentalists concentrating on that list FIRST?!?!?!?!?</p>
<p>And if we can accept the sinners from that list in our churches, why the hell can&#8217;t we accept homosexuals?</p>
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		<title>By: Theresa Seeber</title>
		<link>http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/2009/04/28/if-you-are-gay-know-this-jesus-loves-you/#comment-255</link>
		<dc:creator>Theresa Seeber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 18:05:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/?p=71#comment-255</guid>
		<description>Mel, thank you so very much for taking the time to come comment on my post! And thank you so very much for your kind words! My heart sings as you tell me I am a blessing. I desire that all will hear this message, and hope than many will hear it through me!

I agree that this issue is about people. I am finding that many people who engage in this conversation with me elsewhere (primarily facebook right now) disagree with my belief that we have misunderstood the original texts supposedly condemning homosexuality as a sin, yet they concede that the Church must do better with this awesome group of people. Jesus&#039; love transcends every political affiliation, every scientific discovery, every opinion and even every experience. He is there through it all, desiring to be known and loved by us, His creation. I get so excited when I have the chance to share His love with those who need it the most! And I am learning how to do that without imposing my opinions on them, nor the opinions that I have been handed by well-meaning followers of His.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mel, thank you so very much for taking the time to come comment on my post! And thank you so very much for your kind words! My heart sings as you tell me I am a blessing. I desire that all will hear this message, and hope than many will hear it through me!</p>
<p>I agree that this issue is about people. I am finding that many people who engage in this conversation with me elsewhere (primarily facebook right now) disagree with my belief that we have misunderstood the original texts supposedly condemning homosexuality as a sin, yet they concede that the Church must do better with this awesome group of people. Jesus&#8217; love transcends every political affiliation, every scientific discovery, every opinion and even every experience. He is there through it all, desiring to be known and loved by us, His creation. I get so excited when I have the chance to share His love with those who need it the most! And I am learning how to do that without imposing my opinions on them, nor the opinions that I have been handed by well-meaning followers of His.</p>
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		<title>By: Mel White</title>
		<link>http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/2009/04/28/if-you-are-gay-know-this-jesus-loves-you/#comment-254</link>
		<dc:creator>Mel White</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 16:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/?p=71#comment-254</guid>
		<description>Thank you!
You have no idea how many people need to hear what you just wrote.
It is a simple message, but in my years of working with the GLBT community it is the message they need to hear the most.

I hope that the people who have responded to your posting will understand that this is not about politics or science.  This is about people.
People who are trying to live their lives the best way they know how. They want to be productive members of society and happy in their personal lives.  I ask you all to consider their desire for peace and reconciliation when you pass judgment on how they live.  

Thank you again! You are a blessing to the world!
Peace to you all,
Mel White</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you!<br />
You have no idea how many people need to hear what you just wrote.<br />
It is a simple message, but in my years of working with the GLBT community it is the message they need to hear the most.</p>
<p>I hope that the people who have responded to your posting will understand that this is not about politics or science.  This is about people.<br />
People who are trying to live their lives the best way they know how. They want to be productive members of society and happy in their personal lives.  I ask you all to consider their desire for peace and reconciliation when you pass judgment on how they live.  </p>
<p>Thank you again! You are a blessing to the world!<br />
Peace to you all,<br />
Mel White</p>
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		<title>By: Ted Seeber</title>
		<link>http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/2009/04/28/if-you-are-gay-know-this-jesus-loves-you/#comment-234</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Seeber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 23:34:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/?p=71#comment-234</guid>
		<description>No problem.  If I could have commented on the site that had Tony relating that story, I would have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No problem.  If I could have commented on the site that had Tony relating that story, I would have.</p>
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		<title>By: Theresa Seeber</title>
		<link>http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/2009/04/28/if-you-are-gay-know-this-jesus-loves-you/#comment-232</link>
		<dc:creator>Theresa Seeber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 23:08:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/?p=71#comment-232</guid>
		<description>Ted, I am sorry but I had to delete your last comments. Think of it for a moment. We can talk privately later if you want on why I did that. You know where to find me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ted, I am sorry but I had to delete your last comments. Think of it for a moment. We can talk privately later if you want on why I did that. You know where to find me.</p>
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		<title>By: Theresa Seeber</title>
		<link>http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/2009/04/28/if-you-are-gay-know-this-jesus-loves-you/#comment-229</link>
		<dc:creator>Theresa Seeber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:33:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/?p=71#comment-229</guid>
		<description>Angela ... It seems we condemn ... we who? Christians? He doesn&#039;t condemn gay marriage because he firmly believes God blesses it. He meticulously spells that out in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gaychristian.net/justins_view.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the link&lt;/a&gt;. I can&#039;t find info on whether or not he is married but after watching &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gaychristian.net/video/musical.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this play &lt;/a&gt; I don&#039;t feel he is condemning of the GLBT community in any way at all. Elsewhere (on the Dr.Phil show) I guess he argued that Christian therapies do more harm than good. I haven&#039;t seen the episode yet but got my info &lt;a href=&quot;http://drphil.com/shows/show/601/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;from here. &lt;/a&gt; Here is a copy and paste &lt;a href=&quot;http://drphil.com/slideshows/slideshow/2840/?id=2840&amp;showID=601&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;from here &lt;/a&gt; 

&lt;em&gt;&quot;I do not believe that gay people can become straight. If they could just pray it away, if it were possible, I would have done it a long time ago,” he says. &quot;I prayed and prayed and prayed and prayed, and I&#039;m still gay. &quot;

During high school, Justin considered himself straight, but in college, he realized that he was attracted to men.  &quot;After I acknowledged that I was gay, I was so desperate to become straight.” He attended ex-gay programs, but felt that they were ineffective. &quot;It makes me furious to hear people tell me that I must have had a bad relationship with my father. I have always had a wonderful relationship with him. I was never sexually molested,” he reveals. &quot;I came to accept myself as gay. Through prayer and Bible study, I have a much, much better relationship with God now than when I was trying to become straight. I think that ministries like Dave&#039;s are harming more people than they&#039;re helping.&quot;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Angela &#8230; It seems we condemn &#8230; we who? Christians? He doesn&#8217;t condemn gay marriage because he firmly believes God blesses it. He meticulously spells that out in <a href="http://www.gaychristian.net/justins_view.php" rel="nofollow">the link</a>. I can&#8217;t find info on whether or not he is married but after watching <a href="http://www.gaychristian.net/video/musical.php" rel="nofollow">this play </a> I don&#8217;t feel he is condemning of the GLBT community in any way at all. Elsewhere (on the Dr.Phil show) I guess he argued that Christian therapies do more harm than good. I haven&#8217;t seen the episode yet but got my info <a href="http://drphil.com/shows/show/601/" rel="nofollow">from here. </a> Here is a copy and paste <a href="http://drphil.com/slideshows/slideshow/2840/?id=2840&amp;showID=601" rel="nofollow">from here </a> </p>
<p><em>&#8220;I do not believe that gay people can become straight. If they could just pray it away, if it were possible, I would have done it a long time ago,” he says. &#8220;I prayed and prayed and prayed and prayed, and I&#8217;m still gay. &#8221;</p>
<p>During high school, Justin considered himself straight, but in college, he realized that he was attracted to men.  &#8220;After I acknowledged that I was gay, I was so desperate to become straight.” He attended ex-gay programs, but felt that they were ineffective. &#8220;It makes me furious to hear people tell me that I must have had a bad relationship with my father. I have always had a wonderful relationship with him. I was never sexually molested,” he reveals. &#8220;I came to accept myself as gay. Through prayer and Bible study, I have a much, much better relationship with God now than when I was trying to become straight. I think that ministries like Dave&#8217;s are harming more people than they&#8217;re helping.&#8221;</em></p>
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		<title>By: Angela Harms</title>
		<link>http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/2009/04/28/if-you-are-gay-know-this-jesus-loves-you/#comment-227</link>
		<dc:creator>Angela Harms</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:59:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/?p=71#comment-227</guid>
		<description>“To me, the truth isn’t situational. An act is either moving towards God or moving towards Evil, it can’t be one in some situations and something else in others.&quot;

What I&#039;m saying is that it&#039;s not my job to decide what you should be doing. We all fall short in our own unique ways, all the time, and we are all forgiven. In many cases, there is not clear answer, and we compromise. It&#039;s not my job to judge whether you&#039;ve weighed things correctly.

I get to work on ways that I can be closer to God (like by loving people) and things I can change about myself to avoid pushing God away. You get to work on your stuff, knowing I love you, God&#039;s grace covers you, and you are treasured and forgiven in his eyes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“To me, the truth isn’t situational. An act is either moving towards God or moving towards Evil, it can’t be one in some situations and something else in others.&#8221;</p>
<p>What I&#8217;m saying is that it&#8217;s not my job to decide what you should be doing. We all fall short in our own unique ways, all the time, and we are all forgiven. In many cases, there is not clear answer, and we compromise. It&#8217;s not my job to judge whether you&#8217;ve weighed things correctly.</p>
<p>I get to work on ways that I can be closer to God (like by loving people) and things I can change about myself to avoid pushing God away. You get to work on your stuff, knowing I love you, God&#8217;s grace covers you, and you are treasured and forgiven in his eyes.</p>
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		<title>By: Ted Seeber</title>
		<link>http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/2009/04/28/if-you-are-gay-know-this-jesus-loves-you/#comment-226</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Seeber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 19:41:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyesofhope.wordpress.com/?p=71#comment-226</guid>
		<description>&quot;Oh yes, I sure do! He loved the tax collectors, the whores, the killers, everybody. He told the truth, even when it meant turning over tables, but his grace never falters.&quot; 

One can condemn the act and still love the individual doing the act.  I was afraid you would do what so many in this debate are tempted to do- and fail to tell the truth.  In an earlier message you wrote:

&quot;We get to work on discerning what the right thing is for *us* to do in a particular situation, and maybe to give one another the love and support to let us *each* discern what is right for us in each moment. But we aren’t called to “discern” what is right for *other* people.&quot;

To me, the truth isn&#039;t situational.  An act is either moving towards God or moving towards Evil, it can&#039;t be one in some situations and something else in others.  Situational Ethics is one of the great challenges and temptations secular humanism presents Christianity with, and we can&#039;t take the bait.

If waterboarding was evil enough to execute Japanese officers in WWII for, for instance, then you can&#039;t support President Obama in giving a free pass to the Bush Administration just because al Qaida didn&#039;t follow the rules.  

That doesn&#039;t mean you can&#039;t welcome in a gay couple, encourage the state to get out of the marriage business and into civil unions that are wider than traditional marriage, etc.  But it does mean, that if in your heart you see homosexuality as something equal to birth control or divorce, you can&#039;t go around saying it&#039;s &quot;normal&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Oh yes, I sure do! He loved the tax collectors, the whores, the killers, everybody. He told the truth, even when it meant turning over tables, but his grace never falters.&#8221; </p>
<p>One can condemn the act and still love the individual doing the act.  I was afraid you would do what so many in this debate are tempted to do- and fail to tell the truth.  In an earlier message you wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;We get to work on discerning what the right thing is for *us* to do in a particular situation, and maybe to give one another the love and support to let us *each* discern what is right for us in each moment. But we aren’t called to “discern” what is right for *other* people.&#8221;</p>
<p>To me, the truth isn&#8217;t situational.  An act is either moving towards God or moving towards Evil, it can&#8217;t be one in some situations and something else in others.  Situational Ethics is one of the great challenges and temptations secular humanism presents Christianity with, and we can&#8217;t take the bait.</p>
<p>If waterboarding was evil enough to execute Japanese officers in WWII for, for instance, then you can&#8217;t support President Obama in giving a free pass to the Bush Administration just because al Qaida didn&#8217;t follow the rules.  </p>
<p>That doesn&#8217;t mean you can&#8217;t welcome in a gay couple, encourage the state to get out of the marriage business and into civil unions that are wider than traditional marriage, etc.  But it does mean, that if in your heart you see homosexuality as something equal to birth control or divorce, you can&#8217;t go around saying it&#8217;s &#8220;normal&#8221;.</p>
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